[01:21]
Jax Wilder:
Check, check! Mic is hot. Welcome in, sciencers! I'm Jax Wilder, and I'll be your pilot through the legal turbulence today.
[01:22]
Jax Wilder:
Professor Kirkland will be starting shortly! I'll monitor the chat for any questions for the Q&A, but just to make sure I get them all, you might want to wait until the end.
[01:22]
Chloe Reed:
lol jax
[01:22]
Toby Vance:
I heard the FBI raided a dig site once because the T-Rex was ."unarmed."
[01:22]
Patty Cakes:
lol toby!!
[01:22]
Maya Singh:
hahaha
[01:23]
Maya Singh:
I love Prof. Kirkland, I had her for Tort Law last semester. She is literally amazing.
[01:23]
Jax Wilder:
@Maya Right?? I took her International Antiquities seminar last year. It was so fascinating.
[01:23]
Nate Fisher:
what was that about, Jax?
[01:24]
Jax Wilder:
The discovery of ancient artifacts, stuff like Peruvian masks believed to be cursed, but she gets called in to assess their authenticity.
[01:24]
Adam McDermott:
Josh Harmon told me I HAD to see Kirkland's presentation. I'm hyped!!
[01:24]
Toby Vance:
I bet the lawyers have a "bone" to pick with Kathleen today!!
[01:24]
Patty Cakes:
lol
[01:24]
Maya Singh:
hahaha toby!
[01:25]
becky bones:
as a former student I agree her classes are the best!
[01:25]
vince v:
Yes.
[01:25]
Rico Roughneck:
I DRILLED 12000 FEET YESTERDAY. NO BONES. NO FBI. NO LAWYERS. JUST MUD. IF THEYRE SUING OVER IT ITS BECAUSE THEY MADE IT IN A LAB AND LOST THE RECEIPT!!!
[01:25]
zeke c:
wtf?
[01:25]
Gary White:
what is Rico talking about?
[01:26]
Nate Fisher:
@Rico maybe the lawyers are the ones who actually "evolved" from the lizards? lol
[01:26]
Willa Sterling:
lawyers = lizards!! I KNEW IT!!
[01:26]
zeke c:
huh?
[01:26]
Chloe Reed:
i don't get it either, zeke
[01:27]
Jax Wilder:
Careful, Nate! If you call a lawyer a lizard, they might sue you.
[01:27]
Mary Sue:
Hi everyone!
[01:27]
Patty Cakes:
hi mary sue
[01:27]
Chloe Reed:
welcome mary
[01:27]
Gary White:
greetings, mary sue!
[01:27]
Mary Sue:
I missed the keynote. Was it good?
[01:27]
Chloe Reed:
oh it was AMAZING!
[01:27]
Elena Cruz:
You missed a great presentation!
[01:27]
Willa Sterling:
it was good
[01:27]
Chloe Reed:
dr. goodfellow is absolutely great to listen to!!! i coulfd listen to him all day!!!
[01:28]
Mary Sue:
wow, I feel bad I missed it! Was it recorded? Can I watch it later?
[01:28]
Chloe Reed:
not sure
[01:28]
Elena Cruz:
I sure hope so!
[01:28]
Jax Wilder:
Yes, all presentations are being recorded right now, and they'll be up on the web site a few days after the conference is over.
[01:28]
Mary Sue:
That's great! Thanks, Jax.
[01:28]
Jax Wilder:
np
[01:28]
dino sore:
i bet the lawyers have a bone to pick after professor kirkland's session!
[01:29]
Jax Wilder:
Alright, just another minute or so. We're locked and loaded. Everyone get ready!
[01:29]
Patty Cakes:
lol dino sore!!
[01:29]
Leo Nidas:
@dino sore TOBY ALREADY MADE THAT JOKE 2 MINUTES AGO!!!! ARE YOU STUPID??? PAY ATTENTION!!!!
[01:29]
Maya Singh:
I'm so excited!
[01:29]
Gary White:
its a bomb. kirkland is about to drop the bomb on how much plaster is actually in the Smithsonian.
[01:29]
vince v:
True.
[01:29]
zeke c:
you guys are weird
[01:33]
curious cat:
i dont get this part...like how can a museum just make something appear
[01:33]
Adam McDermott:
oh wow starting with lawsuits already
[01:33]
Toby Vance:
"manufactured narrative" sounds like my last performance review
[01:33]
j j:
wait what is fiduciary negligence
[01:33]
Kelly B:
wait so like...my kids museum books .they could be lying?? oh gosh
[01:33]
mandy reed:
they could be lying
[01:33]
Josh Harmon:
It's when an institution fails its legal duty to properly manage what it's responsible for.
[01:33]
Leo Nidas:
🚫🦖🚫🦖 IF THE PAPER TRAIL IS FAKE THE BONES ARE FAKE LETS GOOOO
[01:33]
Gary White:
So basically museums getting sloppy with responsibility?
[01:33]
Josh Harmon:
In simplified terms, yes.
[01:33]
Kobe Jax:
leo bro chill ur emojis r jumpin me
[01:34]
paco taco:
lol legal drama already
[01:34]
Toby Vance:
Museum court cases, now that is a fossil record I'd read.
[01:34]
Gary White:
This is where the bomb goes off. Bureaucracy always hides the fuse.
[01:34]
Willa Sterling:
🤣🤣🤣
[01:34]
Kelsin Landers:
Legal negligence in curation would be a serious allegation.
[01:34]
paco taco:
wait so like...they just spawn artifacts?? like creative mode lol
[01:34]
Brent Fisher:
It would imply documentation failures at minimum.
[01:34]
Joni Quest:
hahaha i literally watched a curator "find" a vase that was in storage for 12 yrs. timing was sus
[01:34]
Mina Harker:
she said institutions prioritize the "idea of discovery"
[01:34]
Mina Harker:
thats actually a big accusation
[01:34]
Mina Harker:
paperwork gaps always line up w flood layers. its too consistent.
[01:34]
Chloe Reed:
wow yeah thats kinda scary if thats true
[01:34]
Elena Cruz:
do musems really do that
[01:34]
Mary Sue:
Lies thrive in darkness. Institutions must be held to the light.
[01:35]
Gary White:
Happens in plenty of industries. Narrative first, paperwork later.
[01:35]
Nate Fisher:
yep hype drives funding alot of the time
[01:35]
Adam McDermott:
This is fascinating. Josh you didn't tell me it'd go this deep.
[01:35]
Will Bishop:
Incentive structures can absolutely push organizations toward headline discoveries.
[01:35]
Josh Harmon:
I didn't think I had to?
[01:35]
paco taco:
wait what did she say about expert consensus
[01:35]
Patty Cakes:
this is all so interesting thank u for explaining 💛
[01:35]
Josh Harmon:
That it can be used defensively when documentation is weak.
[01:35]
Kelsin Landers:
That's a legitimate concern in any field relying on authority.
[01:35]
curious cat:
What does chain of custody mean?
[01:36]
Mark Davis:
It means a documented record of who recovered the object and how it moved afterward.
[01:36]
Mark Davis:
Standard evidentiary practice.
[01:36]
Adam McDermott:
oh ive heard about this one
[01:36]
Jasper Finch:
yep
[01:36]
james platt:
Orlando Museum of Art right?
[01:36]
j j:
wait what happened
[01:36]
Jasper Finch:
if the origin isnt recorded the object loses context fast
[01:36]
sam b:
esp if theres no coords or layer data
[01:36]
Josh Harmon:
The Basquiat seizure case, yes. That was quite a scandal.
[01:36]
paco taco:
basquiat like the graffiti artist guy??
[01:36]
becky bones:
chain of custody issues happen more than ppl think
[01:36]
becky bones:
i saw tags get rewritten in grad labs
[01:36]
Joni Quest:
IKR?? hahaha
[01:36]
Pete Ross:
lol font drama!
[01:36]
Gary White:
Yeah that name carries serious money in the art market.
[01:36]
dennis m:
not the FONT bro 💀💀 thats so cap
[01:36]
Kelsin Landers:
If I recall correctly, those paintings were claimed to be "lost works."
[01:36]
Joni Quest:
tags magically appearing on trays was a running joke where I interned lol
[01:36]
Leo Nidas:
🚫🦖🚫🦖🚫🦖
[01:36]
j j:
ok so now shes saying look at it like an auditor
[01:36]
Kelsin Landers:
The typeface discrepancy is actually a strong indicator of fabrication. Hard to ignore.
[01:36]
Chloe Reed:
omg the fbi raided a museum??
[01:36]
vince v:
wild
[01:36]
Elena Cruz:
wow thats kinda wild
[01:37]
Ngok D:
Haven't heard about this before.
[01:37]
Gary White:
That's the right mindset honestly. Follow the paperwork.
[01:37]
Nate Fisher:
yeah feds dont show up unless somethings real bad
[01:37]
curious cat:
so like, they didnt even look at the box?? how
[01:37]
paco taco:
gaps in paperwork sounds like a detective show lol
[01:37]
silas m:
A single anachronism can unravel an entire illusion.
[01:37]
Big Al:
Museums as a thriller genre honestly works
[01:37]
Will Bishop:
When federal agents get involved, the liability exposure becomes enormous.
[01:37]
Patty Cakes:
this is so interesting!
[01:37]
Toby Vance:
CSI: Cretaceous Investigation
[01:37]
paco taco:
wait 25 paintings?? lol thats alot
[01:37]
Willa Sterling:
🤣🤣🤣🤣
[01:37]
Barney Gumble:
25 fakes sittin in a museum?? wow
[01:37]
Aris Thorne:
A temporal inconsistency of this magnitude renders the entire narrative untenable.
[01:37]
Mina Harker:
shes talking about objects "appearing" in collections
[01:37]
dennis m:
thats kinda sus ngl
[01:37]
vince v:
wow
[01:37]
Adam McDermott:
This is incredible.
[01:37]
Mina Harker:
thats the weird part
[01:37]
howard hughes:
If a typeface can expose a lie, what else could?
[01:37]
james platt:
Has that actually happened historically?
[01:37]
Barney Gumble:
oh ive heard storys
[01:37]
Barney Gumble:
crates show up nobody asks questions lol
[01:38]
Kelsin Landers:
To be fair, unexplained provenance does occur in historical collections.
[01:38]
Leo Nidas:
🚫🦖🚫🦖🚫🦖
[01:38]
curious cat:
If they can't trace it back, how do they know its real?
[01:38]
Gary White:
That's the point she's making.
[01:38]
Josh Harmon:
Precisely. Provenance is the backbone of credibility.
[01:38]
howard hughes:
An artifact without a traceable past becomes an idea rather than an object.
[01:38]
Adam McDermott:
wow
[01:38]
silas m:
Evidence without lineage is merely a story awaiting belief.
[01:38]
vince v:
facts
[01:39]
curious cat:
wait laundering history??
[01:39]
Mark Davis:
Basically passing an object through multiple owners to make it look legit.
[01:39]
Mina Harker:
omg the Getty got busted for that??
[01:40]
Mark Davis:
yep, and some of those vases were like hundreds of pieces
[01:40]
Joni Quest:
hahahaha "private Swiss collection" my ass
[01:40]
Toby Vance:
strip-mining archaeological sites, yikes
[01:40]
becky bones:
Marion True ended up in court for this
[01:40]
silas m:
When legality is optional, fabrication becomes a rule, not an exception
[01:40]
paco taco:
swiss collection sounds sus af
[01:40]
Mina Harker:
wow they had to give back 40+ pieces? insane
[01:40]
Mark Davis:
Constructive knowledge is key here - they can't claim ignorance
[01:41]
Adam McDermott:
the coffin was fake
[01:41]
Adam McDermott:
imagine paying 4 million dollars gone for a forged license 😬
[01:41]
Jessica R:
art museums really need better verification lol
[01:42]
curious cat:
nazi-looted art??
[01:42]
Pete Ross:
heard about this before, but didnt know this case was still ongoing
[01:42]
Sarah Miller:
this is exactly why people get brainwashed by museums
[01:42]
Kobe Jax:
lol willful blindness much
[01:42]
howard hughes:
gaps in ownership from the 30s is hard to ignore
[01:42]
Kelly B:
oh my gosh this is really interesting..
[01:42]
hey mikey:
they rely on people not asking for permits classic
[01:43]
Jax Wilder:
Museums often prioritize appearance over verification
[01:43]
Chloe Reed:
i'm not surprised that people just accept it
[01:43]
Nate Fisher:
yep as soon as a judge asks questions, everything falls apart
[01:43]
mandy reed:
that's really crazy
[01:43]
Big Al:
honestly this stuff makes the art world feel like a thriller
[01:43]
skep-tic AL:
When systems favor narrative over evidence, law eventually exposes the gaps
[01:48]
Chloe Reed:
so the FedEx Rule means stuff cant exist before its parts?
[01:48]
Adam McDermott:
ohhhh like that basquiat case, got it
[01:48]
Maya Singh:
omg thats actually so wild
[01:48]
Chloe Reed:
wow, that actually makes a lot of sense
[01:48]
mandy reed:
true, timelines really matter then
[01:48]
Chloe Reed:
seriously, every museum visit suddenly feels sus
[01:48]
curious cat:
if a plaque says "private Swiss collection" its automatically sus ?
[01:49]
Mark Davis:
Correct. Physical components set hard boundaries on authenticity.
[01:49]
Mark Davis:
Not automatically, but it's a huge red flag in provenance. Missing links break the chain.
[01:49]
Barney Gumble:
lol so if u see titanium white in an old painting its game over
[01:49]
Mina Harker:
oh wow, so if there's no find spot its basically made up
[01:49]
becky bones:
yeah seen that in labs, materials tell the real story
[01:49]
curious cat:
so first question is "what is it made of?" not "what is it"
[01:49]
Mark Davis:
lol they just invent the history at the point of sale sometimes
[01:49]
Gary White:
In court, that mismatch is not minor - it's fatal
[01:49]
Chloe Reed:
and even small things like packaging can expose fakes
[01:49]
Joni Quest:
IKR?? hahaha every museum hiding gaps like this
[01:49]
Maya Singh:
good point, even labels cant lie forever
[01:49]
Gary White:
Forced aging is another giveaway - too uniform over time is suspicious
[01:49]
becky bones:
acids, tea, heat, yeah ive seen that before
[01:50]
mandy reed:
some objects might look ancient but arent
[01:50]
Elena Cruz:
every legit find has photos and gps coords ?
[01:50]
curious cat:
and natural aging is uneven, like moisture and light change stuff differently..
[01:50]
Mark Davis:
Exactly. Without those, the object's chain of custody is broken.
[01:50]
Elena Cruz:
so if there's no excavation evidence, it's assumed not trustworthy?
[01:50]
Adam McDermott:
so basically if it looks "too perfect" it's probably a fake
[01:50]
Barney Gumble:
lol museums just want us to take their word sometimes
[01:50]
Liam O'Brien:
wow they really go all in with the fake aging, crazy
[01:50]
Adam McDermott:
wow, so a "high-priced rock" is literally how they see it in court
[01:50]
j j:
so every "perfectly old" object is a warning sign
[01:50]
Joni Quest:
hahaha yeah ive seen that playbook, fake the paperwork, sell the story
[01:51]
hey mikey:
yup, kiln or chemical bath last year beats centuries every time
[01:51]
Chloe Reed:
this is insane, all those centerpieces could be nothing
[01:51]
mandy reed:
yeah, some displays are mostly modern anyway
[01:51]
becky bones:
reconstruction or sculpture, semantics matter
[01:51]
Gary White:
Legally, misrepresentation is key here - if the bulk is modern, it's not a relic
[01:51]
Willa Sterling:
the "connective tissue" is basically cheating
[01:51]
curious cat:
so even if it looks old, the modern additions make it fake in the legal sense
[01:51]
Joni Quest:
The goal is detecting authenticity, not speculation
[01:51]
Liam O'Brien:
wow that's really deceptive, museums putting mostly new stuff on display
[01:52]
hey mikey:
yup, always check what's actually original versus added materials
[01:52]
j j:
90% plaster?? wow thats a lot of fake
[01:52]
Terry S:
If it changes hands a bunch it's basically laundering!!!
[01:52]
Maya Singh:
i always wondered why some exhibits felt "off"
[01:52]
Mark Davis:
Exactly. Multiple anonymous transfers create a false sense of provenance.
[01:52]
Barney Gumble:
lol they just sell the paperwork more than the object sometimes
[01:52]
Maya Singh:
omg that's actually wild, so the object doesnt matter, the papers do
[01:53]
Chloe Reed:
ugh, makes you question everything in a museum
[01:53]
Mark Davis:
Yeah, the history of the object matters less than the documents.
[01:53]
Toby Vance:
No Questions Asked = red flag
[01:53]
becky bones:
shell companies, phantom collectors, classic laundering techniques
[01:53]
Gary White:
Truth survesi scrutiny, but only fakes require secrecy
[01:53]
curious cat:
so auditors basically reveal what museums want hidden
[01:53]
Gary White:
*survives
[01:53]
Pete Ross:
that really puts things in perspective
[01:53]
Kelsin Landers:
exactly. authority doesn't equal correctness
[01:53]
j j:
wow, that makes the whole display feel so different
[01:53]
howard hughes:
the fragility of institutions is often underestimated
[01:54]
Liam O'Brien:
No Questions Asked, yeah that's a huge warning sign
[01:54]
Chloe Reed:
it's crazy, all those expensive centerpieces might be nothing more than clever paperwork
[01:54]
Mary Sue:
we must always weigh evidence against narrative
[01:54]
Aris Thorne:
All discoveries must be verified!
[01:54]
Ngok D:
makes you rethink the whole idea of "museum truth"
[01:54]
Liam O'Brien:
the plaque is not evidence - got it
[01:54]
Rico Roughneck:
NO QUESTIONS ASKED?? smh, that's the giveaway
[01:54]
silas m:
Agreed. Burden of proof is squarely on the institution, always
[01:54]
kenneth c:
unbroken chain of custody, primary notes, forensic tests, if missing, its an assertion
[01:55]
Chloe Reed:
omg, that really changes how i'll look at every display
[01:55]
Joni Quest:
ikr?? plaques are stories, not proof hahaha
[01:55]
Big Al:
truth survives scrutiny; fakes hide from it
[01:55]
Liam O'Brien:
Thank you, Professor Kirkland!
[01:55]
Mary Sue:
This was amazing!
[01:55]
Pete Ross:
thank you!
[01:55]
Patty Cakes:
yes, always ask questions
[01:55]
Maya Singh:
thank youuuu professor 💛
[01:55]
Pete Ross:
thank you, Professor Kirkland, for this eye-opening presentation
[01:55]
Toby Vance:
thanks prof!! dramatic timing appreciated
[01:55]
Chloe Reed:
it's not over yet, mary sue!
[01:55]
howard hughes:
many thanks, Professor Kirkland
[01:55]
silas m:
thank you, Professor Kirkland - very thorough and enlightening
[01:55]
Willa Sterling:
thanks prof!!
[01:55]
Adam McDermott:
thanks Prof Kirkland!!! super informative
[01:55]
Liam O'Brien:
thanks prof!! really makes you think
[01:55]
Mark Davis:
The lesson is clear: verification > trust in authority
[01:55]
Chloe Reed:
thank you again, Professor Kirkland, can't stop thinking about this
[01:55]
curious cat:
thank you Professor Kirkland, learned so much
[01:55]
mandy reed:
thank you Prof Kirkland, seriously learned so much
[01:55]
Barney Gumble:
thx Professor Kirkland, mind blown
[01:55]
Mark Davis:
my gratitude, Professor Kirkland, for a detailed and rigorous presentation
[01:55]
becky bones:
thank you Professor Kirkland, incredible insights
[02:04]
Justin Reeve:
What did I miss?
